Sunday July 9th- "Ecstasy and Agony"
Sorry this is so late- lots going on...
Let’s Pray:- Context- Chap. 11 is talking about Paul’s authority to teach and warning against false teachers. Paul establishes his preaching credentials in 11:23, by saying he has suffered more for the Gospel. False teachers are in Corinth
2 Cor 12:2-10, 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God knows. 3 And I know that this man-whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows- 4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.
[We see here that Paul is obviously writing about himself, but does not want the be thought of as a bragger. The revelation or vision occurred early in Paul’s Christian life. 3rd heaven means beyond the atmosphere, and beyond the stars- the 3rd heaven is the way of saying God’s home. ]
7 To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
[Speculation on Paul’s thorn- physical, heresy, mental]
Reflections/Questions:
- Have you had a spiritual dream or vision? You are in good company and you ain’t crazy.
- Have you had a very trying experience, problem that you prayed would stop or go away- and it just stayed? You are in good company- and you are not evil simply because this trial was not removed. There are trials in life, some come and go and some we receive complete healing from, but there are others that stay and we are made stronger by being reminded of our inability to control everything, our humanity
-How do the ecstatic vision and the “thorn” relate?
- What can we learn from the ecstasy?- Mystical and yet historical= 14 years ago- but not perfectly able to describe it. Words cannot describe all of life. Ecstatic and mountain top events- are not other worldly necessarily- but just beyond description- God is real and more than our language and normal daily experience can fully handle
- Did you know that Nevaeh is becoming a popular name? What is it? Why is it popular?
- What can we learn from the agony?
- Are troubles “sent” to teach us to pray?
- Sometimes God answers prayer with “no”’s and tells us to carry on- Our “agony” is not meaningless
- Someone else prayed three times, Jesus on the mount of olives Matt. 26:39-44
What is the Christian idea of power and strength?
Vv. 9-10 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” Just like David conquered the Jebusites by entering through their weakest point- so God can enter into us through our weaknesses- We as the Church- are not to exert force like Israel did- we are to persist in good and resist evil by doing good- this is our strongest witness.
The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. Amazing Christian growth
The Inquisition and the crusades have resulted in amazing Christian decline and division
We do not pretend to be strong where we are weak. We are called to be honest with our weaknesses. We realize through trusting that Jesus is God’s son and that we need his death and resurrection
Good News- God is real- and our experiences matter to God. God is with us in the depths and the heights
Let’s Pray:- Context- Chap. 11 is talking about Paul’s authority to teach and warning against false teachers. Paul establishes his preaching credentials in 11:23, by saying he has suffered more for the Gospel. False teachers are in Corinth
2 Cor 12:2-10, 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God knows. 3 And I know that this man-whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows- 4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.
[We see here that Paul is obviously writing about himself, but does not want the be thought of as a bragger. The revelation or vision occurred early in Paul’s Christian life. 3rd heaven means beyond the atmosphere, and beyond the stars- the 3rd heaven is the way of saying God’s home. ]
7 To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
[Speculation on Paul’s thorn- physical, heresy, mental]
Reflections/Questions:
- Have you had a spiritual dream or vision? You are in good company and you ain’t crazy.
- Have you had a very trying experience, problem that you prayed would stop or go away- and it just stayed? You are in good company- and you are not evil simply because this trial was not removed. There are trials in life, some come and go and some we receive complete healing from, but there are others that stay and we are made stronger by being reminded of our inability to control everything, our humanity
-How do the ecstatic vision and the “thorn” relate?
- What can we learn from the ecstasy?- Mystical and yet historical= 14 years ago- but not perfectly able to describe it. Words cannot describe all of life. Ecstatic and mountain top events- are not other worldly necessarily- but just beyond description- God is real and more than our language and normal daily experience can fully handle
- Did you know that Nevaeh is becoming a popular name? What is it? Why is it popular?
- What can we learn from the agony?
- Are troubles “sent” to teach us to pray?
- Sometimes God answers prayer with “no”’s and tells us to carry on- Our “agony” is not meaningless
- Someone else prayed three times, Jesus on the mount of olives Matt. 26:39-44
What is the Christian idea of power and strength?
Vv. 9-10 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” Just like David conquered the Jebusites by entering through their weakest point- so God can enter into us through our weaknesses- We as the Church- are not to exert force like Israel did- we are to persist in good and resist evil by doing good- this is our strongest witness.
The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. Amazing Christian growth
The Inquisition and the crusades have resulted in amazing Christian decline and division
We do not pretend to be strong where we are weak. We are called to be honest with our weaknesses. We realize through trusting that Jesus is God’s son and that we need his death and resurrection
Good News- God is real- and our experiences matter to God. God is with us in the depths and the heights
posted by Palouse Fed. Church at 10:21 AM
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